Basics: How much C&F is too much?

Calibration from/and experience will tell you when too much is too much and you don't want to overdo the funny part or the cocky part. What makes it so difficult to perfect it is necessary to have the most complicated element of PU mastered - Balance.

For one, if you are using C&F as a technique, it becomes alot more complicated because you are displaying personality traits of someone that you are not normally accustomed to being. This is somehwere around the area of congruency. You shouldn't seem like you're trying too hard, or just throwing out lines, you want to seem natural and smooth about everything, which usually means cutting out alot of C&F. Don't let that be the standard that you're game is judged by if the rest of your personality is not congruent with you're techniques. A little bit of C&F is fine. A little bit more than that is probably all you need. And there is a thin line between all you need and way too much. Again, field experience and social calibration will make that line much clearer and allow you to find a better balance.

If you are a C&F» person, being that its not some lines you read on the computer or some explanation of a technique that you are implementing, then its usually much simpler and way easier to calibrate. When its just simply the way you interact with girls, its more or less just not overdoing the cocky part. Just keep it about 40% cocky, 60% funny and use it at will. And when it (and I use this term loosely) FEELS right, just ease up a lil bit to let the girl ACTUALLY connect to you. Other than that, its not too complicated.

Delivery, tonality, and body language are definitely important. But its not something you just have to focus on, it usually fixes itself with field experience and internalizing a few helpful beliefs(such as its normal for women to be attracted to you, and you're comfortable in sexual situations or with women in general).

The funniest thing about C&F is that while it seems to be a tool for breaking rapport and building attraction, it really cements solid rapport. Gunwitch has a term for this, its called rapport assumption. Regardless of whether or not the two of you have an actual rapport, its acting AS IF you alread did or as if she's seeking it. Having a C&F personality and interacting with a chick like that isnt something normal people do. They do that after having a friendship or being in some form of relationship for awhile when the two people are comfortable with each other and this behavior is acceptable.

You skip all that and just assume the behavior is already acceptable and act as if the connection is already there. And after a while, she takes on this frame and you've built rapport without seeking it. Then you move on to the "I feel like I've always known you" or "I barely know you, but I feel so close to you" kind of thing.

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Being successful with women is not about the lines you recite or the moves you make. Any loser can trick a woman into sleeping with him. That doesn't keep him from being a loser.

Its about who you are and where your focus is, not what you do. If you're comfortable with yourself, comfortable with women, and comfortable with being sexual, you ARE the kind of guy that is successful with women.

NVP

The Basics of Picking Up The Hottest Women

I see alot of posts lately, with guys wanting to know or teach how to pick up 9's and 10's and SHBs and all. Whatever. Guys like to attack the issue from a technique standpoint, when the technique never changes just because a girl is slightly more attractive than a few other attractive women. Its not ever really an issue of "what techniques do I use to get her, she's SUPER hot."

Its an issue of having your head together so that you wont let her looks take away from your game and having an understanding to work around logistical situations created by the fact that she's attractive and that effects most everyone else around her.

Anyway, I pulled something out of an old post of mine just to give a premise(take into account that this was now years ago).

"From dealing with women, I would say that their physical beauty, from head to toes is their most powerful weapon. The reason being that most men on the planet value a womans beauty and sexuality over anything else she can offer. A smaller percentage of guys actually value a females personality as much as he values her looks. And I think that for guys who have little to no opportunity to pull a very attractive women uses this as an excuse and a blanket to keep from acknowledging his own low value, so that percentage dramatically decreases. Then there are the very handfull who could care less about how attractive a woman is so long as she is attractive enough to lay and will suck a penis, cook dinner, and pay rent.

Most of the unattractive guys lie in the category of giving to much value of a woman based on her looks. Even guys who learn this stuff fall into the same category because they're core values havent changed. They still weigh a woman's value by her looks and to compensate they mask their low value with all of these techniques and learn some frame control and voila, theyre ready to handle the HB. No, they have a couple of new tricks and put some shiny new paint on the same old rugged house and so yes they are better off than before but still the same rugged low value house.

The guys who value personality as much as looks as well as the guys who just use women are in a completely different category. They're advantage is, they completely eliminate most of the influence» that a woman has. Without her looks, the HB who has probably been hot all her life has little left to fall on to stay in control of the interaction. While her socially perceived value may stay at a certain level, her value relative to you in a PERSONAL INTERACTION is lower than it would be with the average joe. This creates the premise that value is never fixed. It is perceived.

Most men value so very few traits in a woman, that women can spend all their time working on two or three aspects of themselves and have incredible success in a social environment. And I'll name three for you, physical beauty, social skills, and the ability to manipulate. Though most men may not value a womans ability to manipulate, womens attempts to manipulate can be thoroughly masked by her social skills. Its just like that. Do you think most men really enjoy going around buying girls gifts and getting nothing in return, doing favors for girls that would pay them no attention otherwise, buying fancy cars (and in my neighborhood, big rims), huge houses, and expensive clothes just to try and attract a beautiful woman? Hell no. Men do it because most of us are trained to think that these things are what attracts women and men want women. And while these things have value, they are very specific and will attract girls who value these particular articles more than other things(aka-gold diggers). Just like guys with well developed bodies and handsome faces are going to attract women who value that more than they value other things. Sure they'll attract the average well rounded female too, but any particular form of value is going to attract the type of woman who is more fixated with that value.

Having nice material possessions and a well developed body has value. Its evident in social settings that these guys have an automatic advantage at first, because they have obvious value due to their "possessions." But in a personal interaction, the perceived value of these things can increase or decrease based on how much the other person is actually interested in those things.

If you get where I'm coming from, value can come from everywhere, and the more positive traits that are associated with you, the more like you are going to have social value and the more like you are going to have value in a personal interaction. But the more you have of one specific type of value, the more you are going to attract women who are interested in only that type of value.

The same thing is true with personality. The guys with amazing personalities are going to be able to attract women who really value personality. The odd thing is that most women place high value on personality because they place high value on feeling emotions. Most guys with great personalities make girls FEEL. Good, bad, happy, sad, sexy, unattractive, horny, sexy, whatever. They elicit emotions from women and most women are drawn to that.

The PUA is trained to exploit that specific type of value above most everything else because this is the type of value that affects most women, regardless of their looks.

Its obvious as in theres no need to explain, that we need to perceived as having equal or higher value than the target to increase the amount of attraction and comfort in the target in a manner that is going to lead to sex. We have tons of techniques that increase our perceived value(DHV) or lower her perceived value (neg) while in a personal interaction. And these are fine. I'll even go so far to say that by DHV u arent trying to gain value(neediness). Its what high value people already do in a not so over-the-top way. They naturally change their perceived value to equal their inherent value. As long as you are coming from a place of value(as in you actually see yourself as valuable) then DHV is doing nothing more than being who you are. Its just that much harder to DHV when you actually need to feel validated.

Negging is also something high value people do(by the way, im not talkin about purely celebs or actors or anything, just people with social value in general) naturally. You just tend not to obviously notice value in other people when its something you are used having yourself. Most guys with nice cars dont even pay attention to guys with other nice cars. Its not even a big deal. He's probably more likely to notice if the other guy has scratches on his paint job. He's not overly trying to diminish the other guys value, its just what it is. Something he noticed. The difference between the techniques and simply just doing it is one can be incongruent while the other is just normal. I'll explain later.

Back to why guys have trouble with beautiful women. As long as you put alot of value in a womans physical beauty, you will not be able to naturally DHV or change or maintain your perceived value in the eyes of a beautiful woman. Why? Cuz you are doing it from a place where you already put her value above yours. So even though you might run the routines and recite the lines and c&f it to death, incongruency will set in. Your bl and your tonality and other things are going to seep in and naturally move your perceived value in her eyes closer to your inherent value. Simply, you're going to start doing the things you would normally do that would clash with the techniques you are using, aka incongruency.

What is actually beautiful about this, is all it takes to eliminate the incongruency is one simple thing. Its called normal. When something becomes normal, its perceived value in his eyes is lowered. When a guy is broke, money sound very enticing. When that guy is Bill Gates is that guy, money is just something he is used to. That doesnt make money less valuable, it just makes money less important to him because it is normal for him to have it and there is an abundancy of it. And there are some inconsistencies, some rich people have a desire to accumulate more money once they are rich. Its not unheard of. The thing is, that need for money is completely internal. Its up to them in their own mind to value money so much. They're already rich, they dont need more money anywhere near as much as a poor person.

Its almost the exact same with beautiful women. Most guys value beautiful women obviously because they value beauty, but they place so much value on beauty that they lower their own value in retrospect. The thing is, once you sleep with 10 or a 100 beautiful women. Beauty becomes NORMAL. The value that beautiful women have dramatically decreases in a personal interaction with you. Their social value doesnt move, they're still beautiful and their social skills have not changed. But in relation to you, their perceived value is lowered making it rather easy for you to DHV and maintain value in her eyes.

Another issue to be examined is Bladelaws example of him and Scarlett Johannsen at a party.

On 3/16/06, bladelaw wrote:

>Upon meeting Scarlett Johannsen, I neg,
>qualify, tease, make her
>laugh, and be the prize. In
>the span of 20 minutes, we
>just went from a 6 + 10, to an
>8 + 8. NOW I have a chance.
>
>But WAIT. It's only a matter
>of time before her managers
>start calling her with flights
>around the world, and I have
>to head back to my day job.
>The dynamic eventually reverts
>back to 6 + 10. Scarlett,
>having lost attraction, thanks
>me for an fun time. I go back
>to being a 5, and she back to
>a 9. She just can't validate
>giving that much time to me
>due to the small amount of
>value I add to her life.

Anytime you come in conflict with a womans social value, you run the risk of her choosing between you and her social status. We know how this goes. There are plenty of examples of ASD all throughout MASF. Thats enough proof that unless your ability to contribute to her social value is greater than what she risks losing, then she's not going to choose you. Thats why we get the approval of her friends then isolate when we want to escalate so her friends arent going to think any less of her or call her a slut. Its basically our way of avoiding conflict with her social value. On the other hand, theres probably plenty of celebrities that could just waltz right up to her, pat her on the ass, and have sex with her right in front of her friends and she wouldnt care because the potential social value that could be gained from the celebrity is more than enough to overshadow disdain from her friends. And even then, girls make it "okay" to do things normally looked down upon in certain situations. Her friends might even say that it was okay just because it was "xyz." Sometimes we dont have that luxury and opt with eliminating a need for her to choose. I tend to call that skill.

With scarletts situation though, theres a different way to go about that. Personally, i dont have the experience to say exactly what would work. I would reframe the hell out of everything and make it seem like she's chasing me and I'm the one who's really busy. And she's the one really trying to keep up with me and im not all that worried about it. I mean, whatever I can think of that I think would work, I might throw at her. The thing is, if I was used to this type of situation and this was normal, I would probably have no problem.

So, back to beautiful women.

When you say the easiest way to get a beautiful woman is to simply ignore the fact that she's beautiful its almost that simple. The thing is, just like the rich man who still "needs" more money, some guys get a beautiful woman and still "need" beautiful women.

The thing with most aspects of PU is there is always going to be thing present in every single element of what ever you do. BALANCE. Balance is finding the line between valuing her for being beautiful but it being normal enough to you that its not a big deal. Balance between the amount of attraction and the amount of comfort you need to lay a HB. Balance between how much you qualify and how much you validate the HB. Balance between how much you lead the interaction and how much you just vibe. The most powerful weapon we have in PU isnt confidence, or verbal skills, or anything else than you'll find in most posts or LRs, the most powerful weapon we have is the ability to find a balance that will lead us to the outcome we desire in any given situation.

Its talked about all the time. "Did I 'abc' enough? Did I 'xyz' too much? Was I too this? Was I not enough of that?" When the question is did my thoughts and values in relationship to my actions create the right balance to pull this chick. I mean its deeper than that, but its the beginning frame work. And if you want to be good, you have to be adaptable enough to realize that every situation and girl are going to require a different balance as well as having the ability to create that balance and produce a situation that is favorable to you."


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Being successful with women is not about the lines you recite or the moves you make. Any loser can trick a woman into sleeping with him. That doesn't keep him from being a loser.

Its about who you are and where your focus is, not what you do. If you're comfortable with yourself, comfortable with women, and comfortable with being sexual, you ARE the kind of guy that is successful with women.

NVP

Challenging a woman... Its necessary to get from chump to PUA

Let me say, Im not the the greatest PUA ever. Im no mPUA or any kind of guru. I've met guys who dont know what mASF is and have never heard of a PUA who are better with women than I am.

That said, I've slept with plenty of women. Plenty of women have been in love with me, infatuated with me, excited or intrigued or engaged by me. Though Im not the best, I have success with women. Thank yall for being so interested, lol.

It appears to me that often in this Community, we tend to put too much emphasis on "what to do" with women, when we should be putting most of our emphasis on "who we are" and where our focus is.

I know, for almost every guy on the planet, it sounds SOOOO great to hear that you can get laid using a bunch of lines. Some of you have likely tried speed seduction. Its captivating to think that you can seduce a woman with just a handful of patterns. There are eleventy(lol) different methods out there and just as many gurus for learning how to seduce a woman. Theres even the advice that people in general give you. "Be yourself, be nice , be courteous, be a gentleman..." so on and so forth. There are so many options to choose when it comes to how you should approach women.

Ill tell you this, no matter what lines, patterns, methods/gurus, advice you use to try to attract women into your life, you can only "do" so much. At some point, who you are is going to show through. Whether that be 1st class chump, or the smoothest player around, who you are is going to begin to have much more control over what you do than your conscious mind can cover.

You can use all the material in the world, best routines and all, and even if yorue successful with that, you'll only become dependant on the material to work for you.

Now, dont get me wrong, there are plenty of things you can DO that can begin to change who you are. You can be sexual with women, and this in turn will give you opportunity to be more comfortable with being sexual. And that will lead to you making women feel more comfortable with you. Because women want a man who's not afraid of his sexuality, who's not afraid to express it around women, and who wants her in a sexual way.

Take that as a hint.

But since we're on the subject of what we can DO, I'll get to my point. A woman by nature(as in being trained by society) wil try to impose her will on any man at any given time. She's going to ask you to buy her drinks, buy her dinner, take her places, do favors for her, listen to all her problems... basically, she's going to ask you to drop your masculinity for awhile and serve her.

In and of themselves, these things arent necessarily bad. The problem is that most men have nothing going for themselves to attract a woman other than attempting to BUY her affection or sex with gifts and favors. We call that supplication. Its a definite no.

I know alot of you guys are brand new to pick up. I know even more of you are probably struggling or have always struggled with women. I know many of you have had little to no success with women. Thats fine. But I'm assuming since youve been here, youve been reading up, and doing a few approaches, maybe even have some basic skill when it comes to interacting with women.

And maybe Im taking it for granted that youre in the field approaching often, it can be difficult at first. Doesnt matter. Im sure you know women, hell you have a sister, a mom, a cousin, classmates, co-workers, something, so no one has any excuse why they cant do what Im about to tell you.

If you cant tell a woman no and then offer something that YOU want her to have, then you cant expect to sleep with a woman who tells you she wants a relationship(or money, or dinner, or dates, or a friend or whatever).

Plain and simple, YOU HAVE TO CHALLENGE WOMEN. If youre a pushover, if you supplicate, if you do all those things I listed earlier, if you give her only what she asks for and not what YOU want(and thats really what women want, a man that takes what he wants), then you will NEVER be successful with women.

I know the Community has a tendency to stress success with women as lays, but im not that shallow. I mean in the grander scheme of things, getting a gf, laying a girl, laying multiple women, having multiple relationships, having a woman that likes you for you and not what you can provide, or having women respect you in general. If you cant say no to the passing fickle whims that women have and follow up with telling her what YOU want her to have or hell, just what you want, success is impossible. Women simply do not respond to men who fall on their backs every time she says roll over.

So... what exactly do I want you to do to get this ingrained in your head?

I want you to tell 20 women, "No." I dont care if its your mom, your boss, your girlfriend(or wife, lol), whoever. And then, I want you to offer up a suggestion in return. And I want you to be a damn man about it. You dont have to be a jerk, or an ass, you can do it with a sense of humor. But what you wont do is do it timidly or be scared about it.

If a girl wants you to buy her a drink, tell her "No, but if she behaves you might give her a kiss on the cheek later."

If your mom asks you to help her with something, tell her "No, but ill get dad(or find you a boyfriend) to help you since I love you so much."

If a girl asks you for answers to a test or help with her homework tell her, "No, but if you cook me a nice dinner(or give me a nice back rub) I might let you be my studdy buddy(lol, yeah, im trying to set you up for some)."

Now I shouldnt have to spell everything out for you. Im sure alot of you guys are smart. If the options I gave you dont fit a particular situation, then COME UP WITH SOMETHING ON YOUR OWN. And depending on the situation, you dont want to be inappropriate. If its your mom, obviously you dont wanna be an ass and definitely not sexual. If its your boss, dont "not do" anything that would get you fired. If its youre wife(lol), just tell her ass no over and over. Use a little sense.

And in case you didnt notice, in a couple of those examples, I did something very special. Sure, no woman will respect a man that is push over and does every single thing she asks and is always afraid to disagree. Sure, women want a man thats not afraid to say whats on his mind, go after what he wants, and take it when he wants it. But also, women VALUE a man when they have to invest in him. A woman thats not willing to do even small things for you, will probably not be willing to sleep with you. Offer women the opportunity to show compliance, and offer a reward if they do. And that offer of a reward doesnt have to always be verbalized.

If you can do this with 20 women, this alone, I promise that seducing a woman will eventually become second nature. In essence, being talented with women is simply being the type of guy that you honestly want to be, while at the same time, being decisive about what you want, making her feel comfortable about having sex with you, and her investing in you, whether that be time, attention, cooking, back rubs, sex, whatever.

And if you can do this, than you can progress to where you want to be with women.


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Being successful with women is not about the lines you recite or the moves you make. Any loser can trick a woman into sleeping with him. That doesn't keep him from being a loser.

Its about who you are and where your focus is, not what you do. If you're comfortable with yourself, comfortable with women, and comfortable with being sexual, you ARE the kind of guy that is successful with women.

NVP